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Sorry about being off topic (I haven't read QB Exiled Warriors yet but will eventually), but I have a few things to say/ask.
1) Happy new year slightly late!
2) Some of the old download links are all gone: I tried getting the characters that came out since I've last been here, but no go. The most recent "everything" pack seems to work though so I suppose I'll just redownload everything and re-add the non-publishable characters back in.
3) Do you still want my "reviews" of the "new" characters after I give them a spin?
4) *sheepish face* Hum... Do you want yet another Shion? I have one who's development is progressing well, it doesn't require adding new things to the executable, 31 out of 32 images are not used in the other Shion variants and it has less questionable content than some of the others. On the negative side, a lot of the image's quality is pretty meh, a lot of the attacks doesn't feature Shion (Attacks are summon-based) and while the character has her own interesting unique gimmick, I'm kind of doubting that she'll actually be fun to play...
Hey there Ayra, been a while! I guess your best bet is getting the compilation packs, my bad ^^U
I'm feeling somewhat lazy lately, truth be told (so sorry if I couldn't fix much from last time), but I'd still love to hear what you have to say about the newest chars!
And sure, bring more Shions, you're awesome at making new chars too... but you don't seem much convinced yourself? You can always ask in case I can put some new spin on the char, you know.
Well... First instinct was to say "I got it", but considering I am kind of scratching my head, I suppose asking couldn't hurt :)
The base is the Shion I was talking about way back then, with the trials that put permanent penalities on her until you complete it. It comprises of three skills: Two are identical and progress her in the trials by 1, and the third skill is simply "give up" which removes all the penalities and give back some BP back for each completed trial. If she complete all trials, all the penalities gets removed and she gets utterly massive bonuses: Currently settling on infinite MP, permanent damage increase, permanent damage taken decrease, max BP increase and passive BP regen. Basically, if she gets there, her chance of winning the match shoot straight up.
To compensate the overpoweredness of Awakened mode, her normal MP gain is very low, her low MP skills are mediocre and her big skills cost more MP than she's likely to ever get without getting in Awakened mode. Trials value also go from 0 to 5 (0 is not started, 5 is Awakened mode). So there's 4 trials that needs to be made. I have the images for everything, but I'm kind of wondering what would be appropriate penalities...
I'm currently thinking of the following at each stage (cummulative): 1) -1 permanent damage, +1 damage taken next turn 2) +1 damage taken permanently, +2 damage taken next turn 3) 1 curse damage each turn, +3 damage taken next turn 4) -1 permanent damage, +1 damage taken permanently, +5 damage taken next turn
Balacing is probably completely out of whack, but I'll do some playtesting of course... But if you got better ideas for the trials I'm all ears because I'm not entirely happy with mine!
Oh, since we are at the pitching ideas stage, might as well ask in advance in case you get a brilliant flash of genius...
First, about the Shions, what's been planned ever since the Demon Tamer is the following storyline progression between the classes for the story mode: Summoner -> Guardian -> Cursed -> Priestess -> Demon Tamer -> Ninja -> Seductress -> Leader
Combined with my "cannot publish" Shion, that makes for exactly a full page of Shion, alongside with using pretty much every picture of her that exists. Of those Shion missing, Priestess is the one that's currently being completed. No major issue on that one (beside the "linear" nature of the character).
Cursed is... well... Basically, there's one unnamed (I believe) Shirow character that has about 14 images of her out there. I like her a lot, but 14 images is obviously not enough for a character... So Cursed Shion is basically Shion with a nasty curse placed on her (by her ex-guardian minotaur) where she cannot inflict harm without harming herself (amongst other bad things), and her friend Hakka tries to protect her while they try to reach a temple. To be entirely honest, it's mostly an excuse to put Hakka's picture somewhere in a book, and I had some Shion pictures leftover. Some of the censoring would be tricky to say the least, and image quality isn't exactly always top quality. I don't have an exactly thrilling moveset idea either. Probably won't pan out unless I get a flash of genius. Maybe I could send you the selected image set to see if you get anything more than I do out of it!
Leader Shion is basically when she puts everything she learned together, and leads her new people on a new path of enlightement. Spirits, gods, demons, monsters, people, everyone can work together to create something greater than each of them. A symbiosis relationship that benefits everyone.
Image-wise, it's really pretty with a small handful of exceptions and I have some "spares" on-hand. Censoring isn't a problem except for a few where I have no ideas how I can pull it off. I have a wide variety of images that could lead to some potentially pretty fun moves.
The one thing I'm stumped on is the whole "symbiosis" thing. Basically, the goal is to have a "Shion cannot win without her tribe and her tribe cannot win without it's leader" aspect. So basically, attack images are separated in two: The ones containing Shion in them (usually some nice images that were unused because they also had a tribe member in it) and the ones that don't. The original idea was to have two BP bars and if you do two moves of the same kind in a row (A Shion vs a Shionless move), the corresponding BP bar goes down by 1. When you get hit, the character used in the last turn takes the damage. If either bar goes to 0 or lower, you lose the game so damage-management becomes important.
On a mechanical standpoint, I'm not sure how I could implement all that. On an idea standpoint, I can't help but think that there's a better idea that exists about putting in a symbiotic relationship between the two halves. As in a positive reason to use both halves instead of a penality if you don't, but the damage is still interesting (except for not knowing how to script it).
I know it's really, really vague, but if you got some genius ideas, feel free to throw them my way :)
Well, that's a lot to take in at once, let me focus right now on that Awakened Shion.
I can see how it'd be frustrating to have to wait for 5 successes, getting punished along the way, to max out your char... But what if each trial, besides the punishments, brings a nice perk to it?
I guess it kinda differs a little from the "clear all trials for ultimate power", it'd be somewhat like the so-called 6 paths of Buddha or something from Naruto or Reborn: like a 6-state char that in the first one deals more ext.range damage, in the next is better at knocking the opponent down/around... it could result in a really versatile char (the ones you like so much :D), and you wouldn't even be forced to complete all of them to win?
That's an awesome idea... except that it can't work with the images I have for the character. However, it just might be usable for Farrah or Cyril! I'll definitively will be keeping that in mind for the future, thanks! :)
I'm having some really strange bugs (especially with boost health that seems to only work if it's the first thing in the restriction)... I managed to find a turnaround for each of them beside one that's utterly crippling me.
If I try to put a page turn self to page 47, it ALWAYS goes to page 35 on a success instead. If I put it to any other page it works, but not for page 47. For example, if I send to page 49 instead it works fine. I tried copy-pasting my restriction of page 49 to page 47 just in case that was what was breaking it, but no go...
Here's my control restriction: restriction[5]=Result special2 + 1 = 5 page turn self 63,Result special2 + 1 = 4 page turn self 49,Result special2 + 1 = 3 page turn self 47,Result special2 + 1 = 2 page turn self 39,Bonusagainst 1,Accumulated substract all -1,Extended Range Only move Extended Range,Not Extended Range No restrictions,Change special -2/1
Works completely fine except for the Result special2 + 1 =3 page turn self 47 which goes to 35 instead. It works fine if I put anything else there instead of 47.
Even though it doesn't change anything really, here's restriction for page 47: restriction[23]=Bonusagainst 3,Repeat forever Damage 1,Extended Range Only move Extended Range,Not Extended Range No restrictions,Change special -2/1
Hm, I thought maybe the images wouldn't let you... then instead of an automatic "damage taken next turn", how about a "damage if you use color"? You could vary highs, lows and defense, kinda representing different states of trance or something? Lol, it's the only thing more or less varied and thematical I can think of, apart from the usual stuff (indirect damage, binding...).
And congratulations on finding the rare 47 to 35 redirection. It wouldn't really be a bug, since it's there to improve compatibility with our 2 jedis that choose the rare 47 page as extended range damage or something... so just swap your 47 page with a different one and change the number, sorry if it was driving you crazy ^^U
Well...... at least it's better to know late than never! I didn't dare do a switch beforehand (because I didn't see why it'd fix it) and that it'd require to edit the matrix again, but at least now that I know it'll fix the problem I'll do the switch.
In the case of the Priestess Shion, it's not a gain enlightement kind of trial, or one of self-improvement. It's a trail of faith... In other words, it's a case of worshipping gods that are kind of dickish and where they say: "Will your faith remain unbreakable even though we make you suffer those horrible ordeals?"
If she willingly endure their trials to the end, then they relent, they are touched by her devotion and give her far more power than they normally give to their followers. So that's why in this character case it really has to be penalities. The color/move thing could fit in this case though, so let's see how it goes. "Awakened" Shion doesn't sound correct in this case though... Maybe I'll go with Exalted or Prophet instead... No need to make a final decision until I put the text on the pages anyway (bleh).
As I mentionned before, the "trance stage" idea is extremely interesting and I'll have to steal it for another character sometime in the future. :)
Anyway, for Priestess Shion as she currently stands, if you strip out her Trials thing and the Goddess Summons that are probably out of reach due to MP costs (Sun certainly is at least), she's left with a perfectly viable WIMPL mage moveset: Plain, not terribly exciting but functional. The Give Up move gives you a bit of health and mp depending on how far you are in the Trials so it can be sort of beneficial to go a few steps in even if you aren't planning to do the whole thing.
End result? Well, she's less linear now so I'm happier with her and she certainly got a unique quirk, but I honestly can't say she's the best character I ever made. She tentatively gets a rating of "Okay" so I'll consider that good enough I suppose...
I'll send her over when she's completed, but I still got all the super-boring stuff to do (Writing text on images pages, making the dreaded page 38, AI file), on top of fixing the matrix for the new 47 page, some tweaks with the trials and give up and some more playtesting... So you probably won't have her for this sunday but you most likely will on the next one.
I have no problems with you doing some reviews. I should warn you that Beatrice AKA Beato hasn't been perfected yet. I had to modify Autoguard to accompany her and her inherent Infinity SP ability isn't working yet, neither is her Meta Charge mechanic yet or the bonus damage off of Fire Ballistas.
1) Is it okay if I make an updated Demon Tamer Shion? There's a few reasons for this: Someone put on the internet a scanned version of Pieces 9 (which DTS uses quite a bit), and whoever did this didn't mind destroying their book in the scanning process (unlike me) so their scans are prettier than my own. It also allows for a few more images to be used (the ones that were too close to the center of the book) so I'd switch out a few images too and I'd use the occassion to put a few more censoring water splashes on Fish Guardian like you asked me to months ago. Also, it always bugged me that Fish Guardian is the only move in the entire moveset that didn't do anything special so I would remedy to that at the same time, as well as fix a matrix mistake I noticed playing (Close-range Monster Charge doesn't go to the right page). It's also in my top 3 favorite book to play as so spending more time on it is fun.
2) Can I switch out one image from Guardian Shion? The reason is that Priestess Shion is supposed to always be clothed except for the trials, but my knocked down page is not clothed which doesn't fit. Guardian Shion has the perfect knocked down picture so I'd swap the two. I'd package everything neatly so that it'd be a minimum of effort for you.
3) As always when I'm making a new character... I'm stuck and need some help! I know you are in 'lazy' mode right now, but I sure could use an hand. I didn't change the trials yet (I just tried to make them work as is first since the colors limitations are even more complex), but there's three problems I can't fix... Actually, before posting I did some last minutes tests and checks, and I have only one bug remaining, yay! If you knew the number of places I had written Repeat forever self instead of Repeat self forever...
The remaining bug is the following: I use Accumulated Substract in order to reduce Shion's damage. That part works fine. Here's an example: Accumulated substract all -1 If I complete the trials and I reincrease the amount, it works fine too. In this case: Accumulated substract all +4 Which works as advertised. It removes the two -1s you accrue during the trials, and adds +2 for the rest of the game.
However, if I try to remove the penalities with the Give Up command, I get a weird situation. For example at stopping at the first step, there's this line: Result special2 + 0 = 1 Accumulated substract all +1 It doesn't actually update the damage on the character sheet. However, if you go on the trial again (And get Accumulated substract all -1 again), you won't get the decrease again either.
... Okay, after even more playing around, it seems that internally, it works fine. Shion actually deals regular damage after Give Up, it's just that it doesn't update on her character sheet properly. So from what I can gather, the Accumulated substract that are in a Result clause don't show on the character sheet and the ones that aren't do update. Considering that gameplay-wise it works as I want to, it's not a huge problem.... So I guess there's no problems with Priestess Shion after all :) Just the boring stuff left to do now and some more playtesting (feels a bit off still).
Well, me calling her "Awakened Shion" and the trials a "trance" was just guesswork, I don't remember you telling me before if she was a Priestess or anything...? And you don't need to hurry, I'm kinda in an unexpected "QBB hiatus" for now... :p
1) Sure you can, if you don't change moves around, a few restrictions and matrixes changed are no big deal
2) Again, sure you can
3) Oh, it's nice that it's just a problem of display, I'll see if I can get it fixed, good thing you seem to be doing just fine.
Well, I did mention that Priestess Shion was the one being worked on a few posts back, but considering just how much I prattle on it's awfully easy to miss :)
Anyway, it turns out that I didn't switch out Guardian Shion's page, but I did some swapping between Demon Tamer, Ninja and Seductress. Some of the Ninja and Seductress pages had scores/dodge pages of her being on her mount, so those got sent to Demon Tamer were possible for consistency sake (and the Ninja and Seductress inherited a few mountless pages at the same time). I'll package everything for you neatly so you won't have to do any work to distribute those changes.
About your QBB hiatus, is it a "I don't feel like working on it lately" or a "I don't want to hear about it"? If it's the first option, me giving you some 100% complete characters would be useful so that you can make some updates for "free", no? Well, I know that Shion #6 probably won't drive the crowds jumping with joy, but it's probably better than absolutely nothing!
Do you still have your clean page 38? It's the only thing left to do for Priestess Shion (well, and the AI which I'll only put minimal effort in since the AI can't play the character), and I seem to have lost my page 38 copy.
I haven't did the analysis on the characters yet, sorry! I did play a quick match with each but that's about it (Enough to notice that Alice stole Ayra's Incendiary Bomb attack *shakes fist angrily*).
Regarding Priestess Shion, after some heavy playtesting, I give her a rating of: "Failed Experiment", joining Guardian Shion. She's playable, has some unique quirks and is possible to win with and without the quirks, but she isn't particularly fun to play either gameplay-wise or visual-wise as beside the novelty value of feeling the raw power of Exalted Shion (well, that, and seeing the image that comes with completing the trials succesfully).
On a more positive note, I did some heavy shuffling, tweaking and editting for Tribe Shion and it's looking really, really good. Swell fun moves (details not decided yet), extremely consistent and it has some magnificent imagery (although, it's definitively not for prude people). Yes, it's still more Shion, but I'm excited about this one and me being excited about a character usually leads to a great one (Or at least, they are the ones I love playing the most like Seductress, Demon Tamer or Juliona, so there's going to be at least one person that's likely going to be happy with her). I'll have to pull some editting wizardry for two pictures, though...
Speaking of which, do you recall the picture of Shion in a field with a dragon-ish-looking on top of her? I'm STILL trying to find a way to make that page acceptable and I've been trying since Seductress Shion! I like the picture and it's the third Shion that the image would be awesome in but I can't figure any good way to make it acceptable that hasn't been refused yet and it still bugs the heck out of me.
If I wasn't paying attention about the priestess, my bad ^^U
The hiatus is more like "don't feel like working", and the lack of QB news sure isn't motivating me... but I'll snap out of it, and yeah it'll be a great help if you can provide me with one of you awesome Shirow chars for an update.
Here's the clean 38: http://tinypic.com/r/2nb9aud/6
Too bad about Priestess Shion, then... and, I'm not sure if I remember that Shion/dragon image, but if you can't make it acceptable, it must be pretty hardcore...
So did you figure out a way to do the symbiosis thing with Tribe Shion? For the "positives instead of penalties" when using both halves, I was going to suggest extended bonuses and effects (like, a jump that gives +2 orange might give +3 orange if you just used the other half, an attack with indirect damage of 1 turns into 2, or a normal attack restricts your own moves less than usual...).
Priestess Shion is done! Yay! The AI actually can get to Exalted state... if you do nothing but jump for like 10 turns. Yay..?
Anyway, for some reasons I can't seem to upload the file right now so I'll try again later...
The file will include a QBBattle folder that's properly formatted and which includes Priestess Shion, the updated Demon Tamer Shion as well as the few image switches for the Ninja and Seductress.
Also included is another folder that has the Tribe Shion images. Those are all uncensored images, and I am planning on doing the editting ala Seductress Shion for the most part. Before you ask, yes, part of the final image selection process was picking images featuring naked/near naked well-endowed women: I know it sounds stupid, but it does give a more consistent feeling to the image set despite it featuring many characters. I always try to give my books a consistent feeling as much as I can, as I feel that a consistent visual style helps a book's appearance, and in this case the characters appearances and setting (Heavy seasonal emphasis and natural setting) is what links it together. It does mean a lot of censoring though, hence the planned seductress simple style (though hopefully done a bit better this time).
I also got some reviews done! I hope I won't upset anyone, but the reviews are as honest as I can possibly make them. Sorry! I've went alphabetically and I'm about half done... the other half will be done eventually, but no timeframe given.
Alicia: Well, it's an official character so she certainly looks good from a technical standpoint. I don't like her much personally, but I can't complain about different personal tastes! From a gameplay perspective... A huge "Meh" from me. She's a one-trick pony. Her Dark Sphere is an utterly amazing move: The 3 charges is a pretty pointless addition, since it only decrease on success and odds are that everyone's way overkilled by the time the third land. It's also fairly easy to land... But beside that one single move, she has absolutely nothing of interest in any shape or form: No defenses, no utility, plain as nail limited offense.
Assassin: I'm not very familiar with the Assassin Creed serie (I rented #1 once and utterly detested the game), so I didn't even know there were female assassins like those in it. Some pretty art in there (Especially Twin Blade Slash). BUG: Freerunning goes to Blend In page instead. Pretty interesting character overall, mainly due to good Jump bonuses combined with the Assassination skills. It's pretty thematic (Take time to set up the kill) and works well gameplay-wise. The fancy parry's fun too. I know why it's named that way, but Throw Arrow does sound pretty funny. My only question mark in the moveset is Blend In. It feels extremely underwhelming. It's a Red move which you often can't use, and the assassin has no move that synergize with it. I playtested those "less damage" taken moves quite a bit while developping Juliona and Seductress Shion, and my conclusion was that it's generally not worth much at all unless it A) Is on a Green or Yellow slot, and/or B) Has either another additional effect or has damage linked to the move, and/or C) Synergize directly with some of your other moves. The assassin fullfills none of those conditions, and it result in a move that's basically never worth spending a turn using (IMO). Granted, she got pretty good moveset so she definitively doesn't need that move to be a good and fun character.
B. Jenet: As usual, I have no ideas who that character is, but I have to say that I love her dressing style. Visually-speaking, pretty neat. Gameplay-wise, well... I have to give a thumb down overall. On the positive side, I really like that "1 BP every 2 turns" thing she has. However, she has two main issues: A) Her gameplay is obscure even when checking her page 38. Why do you sometime lose T.O.P. state? Is there a way to get it back? What is that "Just Guard" you need to accomplish before using Ab Oi Mademoiselle? B) She has an extremely limited moveset. She has 6 unused slots, 3 slots dedicated to SP move (which requires a minimum of 3 attacks to get enough SP to use one) and 1 slot that cannot be used unless in TOP state. This means that on most turns, the only actions available to her are basically Down, Side, Thrust and Jumps. It's all a character requires to be functional, but it's even more limited than what barebone characters like Nowa or Leina have. Her special moves are nothing special (beside the extremely hard to perform one due to it's damage), so to me she fits the WIMPIL definition perfectly.
Beatrice: Due to Dlanor I know from what game she is, but that's about it. Images are pretty good on the whole (Taunt's insane grin is great in particular). Gameplay-wise, she's fine overall. Fire Balista is very nice (basically a conditional 0 to 4 poison damage) and it's quite ingenious (I wish I had thought of it first). If we exclude the Ougon partner bit, she's a low damage, average durability character with an above-average healing move (a conditionless, scoreless and green healing 26 move is very good). The balista's hard to use, but it's pretty nifty. I'd rank her under "slightly-weak" before we take the Metaworld part of the equation. If we include the Metaworld, I'd put her around Average. The thing is, her innate bonus is amongst the worst: Since her highest SP cost is 2, the maximum benefit she can get is the equivalent of getting 2 SP... That's hardly impressive when you have assist characters that give out either 4SP or 4BP instead. However, comparing the most similar character, Dlanor's definitively stronger than Beatrice. I'd give a slight edge to Dlanor in the base moveset (Mainly due to her highest damage move being +5 so it crits unlike anything in Beatrice's arsenal and it doesn't require SP, base durability is around similar), but the Metaworld declaration bonus is just not comparable. Dlanor has the best Ougon bonus, so she's free to pick another of the good ones, while Beatrice is stuck with one good pick plus her own extremely mediocre ability. Do note that this doesn't make Beatrice weak compared to the average QB character: It just makes her weaker than Dlanor is.
Chie: I'm still considering buying Persona 4 for my Vita so I might get to actually know a character eventually, yay! :) Overall, I'm pretty darn impressed. She's an incredible offensive powerhouse with an awesome block move, but who gets knocked out if a stiff breeze hits her. Her SP goes up extremely fast, but her "free" attacks are absolutely horrible. So each turn you have the decision to use some SP to actually do something, or do "nothing" and save for the extremely powerful moves later. That makes her pretty fun to play as and no other character in the game currently play like her. Overall she's probably on the strong side of the equation but reducing her strength would strip away some of the character's uniqueness (and making her squisher would make battles too much of a coin flip). She's really fun to play as and requires some thought, so she definitively gets a double thumbs up.
Filia: I know what Skullgirls is, so that's a start! I can't say I like the art much in general, but hey, personal preferences. Gameplay-wise, she's both plain and relatively strong. Plain because her moveset doesn't have anything flashy and doesn't require much thought to play as (granted, that's the case of most characters in the game), and strong because her damage numbers are high. Her long-range game is excellent, her base damage's decent, her jumps are pretty good and her block is amazing (no restrictions, can deal damage, -6 score, +2 damage on everything).
Naughty bits, naughty bits everywhere! Lol, just kidding, the new char looks awesome, and I see nothing wrong with the sexy proto-pics if you can censor them properly... including the so-called dragon, too.
Also, I think you missed Charles's analysis of the QB & QBR girls? It'd be great if you could share your opinions on those two: http://www.sendspace.com/file/0ikf6x
Too bad about B.Jenet, though... You're supposed to lose TOP when below 2/3 of your health (and gain it back when over it), and "Just Defend" is the "perfect defense" thingie I sometimes add here and there (Bayonetta, Elena), like jumping over a low attack or dodging a thrust nets you a better advantage. I know doing that before a super is roundabout-ish, but the super in question is the strongest "safe move" 48 in the game, I think.
Well, I did call it a dragon-ish-looking thing the first time for a reason! I think it's supposed to be a thunder god of some sort, but I have no idea what's it's proper name is. Anyway, a big thank you, even though it means I'll have to both figure out which page I take out for the dragon thingy (I like all of them: Going down to 32 was already a big challenge) and how I'm supposed to censor that! :) Priestess Shion does look good (beside a small handful of pages), too bad she doesn't play as good though... Ah well, she's acceptable. No dates given at all for next character: Might be a week, might be in a month. We'll see! Restriction file is going to be pretty hard and the censoring will be a colossal task (obviously).
I totally did miss those analysis. While I think that completely forgoing Extended Range in the analysis is a mistake (Tomoe has decent long-ranged compared to that cast helps her considerably for example) and that it completely skips over some important moves (Like Sigui's having the most broken move in the game), overall it's very detailed scientific approach.
I'm sure it'll be a shocker, but I actually agree with the majority of the analysis. It also explains a few anomalies I had pointed out (Like Eirin & Ymir, and Elina getting stupidly good rankings in my "tournaments", beyond what their raw values states)... I'll do my detailed opinion on those analysis eventually :)
Thanks for the translation! This one ends at a cliffhanger, so I hope for the next one soon! :D
ReplyDeleteSorry about being off topic (I haven't read QB Exiled Warriors yet but will eventually), but I have a few things to say/ask.
ReplyDelete1) Happy new year slightly late!
2) Some of the old download links are all gone: I tried getting the characters that came out since I've last been here, but no go. The most recent "everything" pack seems to work though so I suppose I'll just redownload everything and re-add the non-publishable characters back in.
3) Do you still want my "reviews" of the "new" characters after I give them a spin?
4) *sheepish face* Hum... Do you want yet another Shion? I have one who's development is progressing well, it doesn't require adding new things to the executable, 31 out of 32 images are not used in the other Shion variants and it has less questionable content than some of the others. On the negative side, a lot of the image's quality is pretty meh, a lot of the attacks doesn't feature Shion (Attacks are summon-based) and while the character has her own interesting unique gimmick, I'm kind of doubting that she'll actually be fun to play...
Hey there Ayra, been a while! I guess your best bet is getting the compilation packs, my bad ^^U
DeleteI'm feeling somewhat lazy lately, truth be told (so sorry if I couldn't fix much from last time), but I'd still love to hear what you have to say about the newest chars!
And sure, bring more Shions, you're awesome at making new chars too... but you don't seem much convinced yourself? You can always ask in case I can put some new spin on the char, you know.
Well... First instinct was to say "I got it", but considering I am kind of scratching my head, I suppose asking couldn't hurt :)
DeleteThe base is the Shion I was talking about way back then, with the trials that put permanent penalities on her until you complete it. It comprises of three skills: Two are identical and progress her in the trials by 1, and the third skill is simply "give up" which removes all the penalities and give back some BP back for each completed trial. If she complete all trials, all the penalities gets removed and she gets utterly massive bonuses: Currently settling on infinite MP, permanent damage increase, permanent damage taken decrease, max BP increase and passive BP regen. Basically, if she gets there, her chance of winning the match shoot straight up.
To compensate the overpoweredness of Awakened mode, her normal MP gain is very low, her low MP skills are mediocre and her big skills cost more MP than she's likely to ever get without getting in Awakened mode. Trials value also go from 0 to 5 (0 is not started, 5 is Awakened mode). So there's 4 trials that needs to be made. I have the images for everything, but I'm kind of wondering what would be appropriate penalities...
I'm currently thinking of the following at each stage (cummulative):
1) -1 permanent damage, +1 damage taken next turn
2) +1 damage taken permanently, +2 damage taken next turn
3) 1 curse damage each turn, +3 damage taken next turn
4) -1 permanent damage, +1 damage taken permanently, +5 damage taken next turn
Balacing is probably completely out of whack, but I'll do some playtesting of course... But if you got better ideas for the trials I'm all ears because I'm not entirely happy with mine!
Oh, since we are at the pitching ideas stage, might as well ask in advance in case you get a brilliant flash of genius...
DeleteFirst, about the Shions, what's been planned ever since the Demon Tamer is the following storyline progression between the classes for the story mode:
Summoner -> Guardian -> Cursed -> Priestess -> Demon Tamer -> Ninja -> Seductress -> Leader
Combined with my "cannot publish" Shion, that makes for exactly a full page of Shion, alongside with using pretty much every picture of her that exists. Of those Shion missing, Priestess is the one that's currently being completed. No major issue on that one (beside the "linear" nature of the character).
Cursed is... well... Basically, there's one unnamed (I believe) Shirow character that has about 14 images of her out there. I like her a lot, but 14 images is obviously not enough for a character... So Cursed Shion is basically Shion with a nasty curse placed on her (by her ex-guardian minotaur) where she cannot inflict harm without harming herself (amongst other bad things), and her friend Hakka tries to protect her while they try to reach a temple. To be entirely honest, it's mostly an excuse to put Hakka's picture somewhere in a book, and I had some Shion pictures leftover. Some of the censoring would be tricky to say the least, and image quality isn't exactly always top quality. I don't have an exactly thrilling moveset idea either. Probably won't pan out unless I get a flash of genius. Maybe I could send you the selected image set to see if you get anything more than I do out of it!
Leader Shion is basically when she puts everything she learned together, and leads her new people on a new path of enlightement. Spirits, gods, demons, monsters, people, everyone can work together to create something greater than each of them. A symbiosis relationship that benefits everyone.
Image-wise, it's really pretty with a small handful of exceptions and I have some "spares" on-hand. Censoring isn't a problem except for a few where I have no ideas how I can pull it off. I have a wide variety of images that could lead to some potentially pretty fun moves.
The one thing I'm stumped on is the whole "symbiosis" thing. Basically, the goal is to have a "Shion cannot win without her tribe and her tribe cannot win without it's leader" aspect. So basically, attack images are separated in two: The ones containing Shion in them (usually some nice images that were unused because they also had a tribe member in it) and the ones that don't. The original idea was to have two BP bars and if you do two moves of the same kind in a row (A Shion vs a Shionless move), the corresponding BP bar goes down by 1. When you get hit, the character used in the last turn takes the damage. If either bar goes to 0 or lower, you lose the game so damage-management becomes important.
On a mechanical standpoint, I'm not sure how I could implement all that. On an idea standpoint, I can't help but think that there's a better idea that exists about putting in a symbiotic relationship between the two halves. As in a positive reason to use both halves instead of a penality if you don't, but the damage is still interesting (except for not knowing how to script it).
I know it's really, really vague, but if you got some genius ideas, feel free to throw them my way :)
Well, that's a lot to take in at once, let me focus right now on that Awakened Shion.
DeleteI can see how it'd be frustrating to have to wait for 5 successes, getting punished along the way, to max out your char... But what if each trial, besides the punishments, brings a nice perk to it?
I guess it kinda differs a little from the "clear all trials for ultimate power", it'd be somewhat like the so-called 6 paths of Buddha or something from Naruto or Reborn: like a 6-state char that in the first one deals more ext.range damage, in the next is better at knocking the opponent down/around... it could result in a really versatile char (the ones you like so much :D), and you wouldn't even be forced to complete all of them to win?
That's an awesome idea... except that it can't work with the images I have for the character. However, it just might be usable for Farrah or Cyril! I'll definitively will be keeping that in mind for the future, thanks! :)
DeleteI'm having some really strange bugs (especially with boost health that seems to only work if it's the first thing in the restriction)... I managed to find a turnaround for each of them beside one that's utterly crippling me.
If I try to put a page turn self to page 47, it ALWAYS goes to page 35 on a success instead. If I put it to any other page it works, but not for page 47. For example, if I send to page 49 instead it works fine. I tried copy-pasting my restriction of page 49 to page 47 just in case that was what was breaking it, but no go...
Here's my control restriction:
restriction[5]=Result special2 + 1 = 5 page turn self 63,Result special2 + 1 = 4 page turn self 49,Result special2 + 1 = 3 page turn self 47,Result special2 + 1 = 2 page turn self 39,Bonusagainst 1,Accumulated substract all -1,Extended Range Only move Extended Range,Not Extended Range No restrictions,Change special -2/1
Works completely fine except for the
Result special2 + 1 =3 page turn self 47
which goes to 35 instead. It works fine if I put anything else there instead of 47.
Even though it doesn't change anything really, here's restriction for page 47:
restriction[23]=Bonusagainst 3,Repeat forever Damage 1,Extended Range Only move Extended Range,Not Extended Range No restrictions,Change special -2/1
Hm, I thought maybe the images wouldn't let you... then instead of an automatic "damage taken next turn", how about a "damage if you use color"? You could vary highs, lows and defense, kinda representing different states of trance or something? Lol, it's the only thing more or less varied and thematical I can think of, apart from the usual stuff (indirect damage, binding...).
DeleteAnd congratulations on finding the rare 47 to 35 redirection. It wouldn't really be a bug, since it's there to improve compatibility with our 2 jedis that choose the rare 47 page as extended range damage or something... so just swap your 47 page with a different one and change the number, sorry if it was driving you crazy ^^U
Well...... at least it's better to know late than never! I didn't dare do a switch beforehand (because I didn't see why it'd fix it) and that it'd require to edit the matrix again, but at least now that I know it'll fix the problem I'll do the switch.
DeleteIn the case of the Priestess Shion, it's not a gain enlightement kind of trial, or one of self-improvement. It's a trail of faith... In other words, it's a case of worshipping gods that are kind of dickish and where they say: "Will your faith remain unbreakable even though we make you suffer those horrible ordeals?"
If she willingly endure their trials to the end, then they relent, they are touched by her devotion and give her far more power than they normally give to their followers. So that's why in this character case it really has to be penalities. The color/move thing could fit in this case though, so let's see how it goes. "Awakened" Shion doesn't sound correct in this case though... Maybe I'll go with Exalted or Prophet instead... No need to make a final decision until I put the text on the pages anyway (bleh).
As I mentionned before, the "trance stage" idea is extremely interesting and I'll have to steal it for another character sometime in the future. :)
Anyway, for Priestess Shion as she currently stands, if you strip out her Trials thing and the Goddess Summons that are probably out of reach due to MP costs (Sun certainly is at least), she's left with a perfectly viable WIMPL mage moveset: Plain, not terribly exciting but functional. The Give Up move gives you a bit of health and mp depending on how far you are in the Trials so it can be sort of beneficial to go a few steps in even if you aren't planning to do the whole thing.
End result? Well, she's less linear now so I'm happier with her and she certainly got a unique quirk, but I honestly can't say she's the best character I ever made. She tentatively gets a rating of "Okay" so I'll consider that good enough I suppose...
I'll send her over when she's completed, but I still got all the super-boring stuff to do (Writing text on images pages, making the dreaded page 38, AI file), on top of fixing the matrix for the new 47 page, some tweaks with the trials and give up and some more playtesting... So you probably won't have her for this sunday but you most likely will on the next one.
I have no problems with you doing some reviews. I should warn you that Beatrice AKA Beato hasn't been perfected yet. I had to modify Autoguard to accompany her and her inherent Infinity SP ability isn't working yet, neither is her Meta Charge mechanic yet or the bonus damage off of Fire Ballistas.
DeleteLook over her carefully. :)
Questions:
ReplyDelete1) Is it okay if I make an updated Demon Tamer Shion? There's a few reasons for this: Someone put on the internet a scanned version of Pieces 9 (which DTS uses quite a bit), and whoever did this didn't mind destroying their book in the scanning process (unlike me) so their scans are prettier than my own. It also allows for a few more images to be used (the ones that were too close to the center of the book) so I'd switch out a few images too and I'd use the occassion to put a few more censoring water splashes on Fish Guardian like you asked me to months ago. Also, it always bugged me that Fish Guardian is the only move in the entire moveset that didn't do anything special so I would remedy to that at the same time, as well as fix a matrix mistake I noticed playing (Close-range Monster Charge doesn't go to the right page). It's also in my top 3 favorite book to play as so spending more time on it is fun.
2) Can I switch out one image from Guardian Shion? The reason is that Priestess Shion is supposed to always be clothed except for the trials, but my knocked down page is not clothed which doesn't fit. Guardian Shion has the perfect knocked down picture so I'd swap the two. I'd package everything neatly so that it'd be a minimum of effort for you.
3) As always when I'm making a new character... I'm stuck and need some help! I know you are in 'lazy' mode right now, but I sure could use an hand. I didn't change the trials yet (I just tried to make them work as is first since the colors limitations are even more complex), but there's three problems I can't fix... Actually, before posting I did some last minutes tests and checks, and I have only one bug remaining, yay! If you knew the number of places I had written Repeat forever self instead of Repeat self forever...
The remaining bug is the following:
I use Accumulated Substract in order to reduce Shion's damage. That part works fine. Here's an example:
Accumulated substract all -1
If I complete the trials and I reincrease the amount, it works fine too. In this case:
Accumulated substract all +4
Which works as advertised. It removes the two -1s you accrue during the trials, and adds +2 for the rest of the game.
However, if I try to remove the penalities with the Give Up command, I get a weird situation. For example at stopping at the first step, there's this line:
Result special2 + 0 = 1 Accumulated substract all +1
It doesn't actually update the damage on the character sheet. However, if you go on the trial again (And get Accumulated substract all -1 again), you won't get the decrease again either.
... Okay, after even more playing around, it seems that internally, it works fine. Shion actually deals regular damage after Give Up, it's just that it doesn't update on her character sheet properly. So from what I can gather, the Accumulated substract that are in a Result clause don't show on the character sheet and the ones that aren't do update. Considering that gameplay-wise it works as I want to, it's not a huge problem.... So I guess there's no problems with Priestess Shion after all :) Just the boring stuff left to do now and some more playtesting (feels a bit off still).
Well, me calling her "Awakened Shion" and the trials a "trance" was just guesswork, I don't remember you telling me before if she was a Priestess or anything...? And you don't need to hurry, I'm kinda in an unexpected "QBB hiatus" for now... :p
Delete1) Sure you can, if you don't change moves around, a few restrictions and matrixes changed are no big deal
2) Again, sure you can
3) Oh, it's nice that it's just a problem of display, I'll see if I can get it fixed, good thing you seem to be doing just fine.
Well, I did mention that Priestess Shion was the one being worked on a few posts back, but considering just how much I prattle on it's awfully easy to miss :)
DeleteAnyway, it turns out that I didn't switch out Guardian Shion's page, but I did some swapping between Demon Tamer, Ninja and Seductress. Some of the Ninja and Seductress pages had scores/dodge pages of her being on her mount, so those got sent to Demon Tamer were possible for consistency sake (and the Ninja and Seductress inherited a few mountless pages at the same time). I'll package everything for you neatly so you won't have to do any work to distribute those changes.
About your QBB hiatus, is it a "I don't feel like working on it lately" or a "I don't want to hear about it"? If it's the first option, me giving you some 100% complete characters would be useful so that you can make some updates for "free", no? Well, I know that Shion #6 probably won't drive the crowds jumping with joy, but it's probably better than absolutely nothing!
Do you still have your clean page 38? It's the only thing left to do for Priestess Shion (well, and the AI which I'll only put minimal effort in since the AI can't play the character), and I seem to have lost my page 38 copy.
I haven't did the analysis on the characters yet, sorry! I did play a quick match with each but that's about it (Enough to notice that Alice stole Ayra's Incendiary Bomb attack *shakes fist angrily*).
Regarding Priestess Shion, after some heavy playtesting, I give her a rating of: "Failed Experiment", joining Guardian Shion. She's playable, has some unique quirks and is possible to win with and without the quirks, but she isn't particularly fun to play either gameplay-wise or visual-wise as beside the novelty value of feeling the raw power of Exalted Shion (well, that, and seeing the image that comes with completing the trials succesfully).
On a more positive note, I did some heavy shuffling, tweaking and editting for Tribe Shion and it's looking really, really good. Swell fun moves (details not decided yet), extremely consistent and it has some magnificent imagery (although, it's definitively not for prude people). Yes, it's still more Shion, but I'm excited about this one and me being excited about a character usually leads to a great one (Or at least, they are the ones I love playing the most like Seductress, Demon Tamer or Juliona, so there's going to be at least one person that's likely going to be happy with her). I'll have to pull some editting wizardry for two pictures, though...
Speaking of which, do you recall the picture of Shion in a field with a dragon-ish-looking on top of her? I'm STILL trying to find a way to make that page acceptable and I've been trying since Seductress Shion! I like the picture and it's the third Shion that the image would be awesome in but I can't figure any good way to make it acceptable that hasn't been refused yet and it still bugs the heck out of me.
If I wasn't paying attention about the priestess, my bad ^^U
DeleteThe hiatus is more like "don't feel like working", and the lack of QB news sure isn't motivating me... but I'll snap out of it, and yeah it'll be a great help if you can provide me with one of you awesome Shirow chars for an update.
Here's the clean 38: http://tinypic.com/r/2nb9aud/6
Too bad about Priestess Shion, then... and, I'm not sure if I remember that Shion/dragon image, but if you can't make it acceptable, it must be pretty hardcore...
So did you figure out a way to do the symbiosis thing with Tribe Shion? For the "positives instead of penalties" when using both halves, I was going to suggest extended bonuses and effects (like, a jump that gives +2 orange might give +3 orange if you just used the other half, an attack with indirect damage of 1 turns into 2, or a normal attack restricts your own moves less than usual...).
Priestess Shion is done! Yay! The AI actually can get to Exalted state... if you do nothing but jump for like 10 turns. Yay..?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, for some reasons I can't seem to upload the file right now so I'll try again later...
The file will include a QBBattle folder that's properly formatted and which includes Priestess Shion, the updated Demon Tamer Shion as well as the few image switches for the Ninja and Seductress.
Also included is another folder that has the Tribe Shion images. Those are all uncensored images, and I am planning on doing the editting ala Seductress Shion for the most part. Before you ask, yes, part of the final image selection process was picking images featuring naked/near naked well-endowed women: I know it sounds stupid, but it does give a more consistent feeling to the image set despite it featuring many characters. I always try to give my books a consistent feeling as much as I can, as I feel that a consistent visual style helps a book's appearance, and in this case the characters appearances and setting (Heavy seasonal emphasis and natural setting) is what links it together. It does mean a lot of censoring though, hence the planned seductress simple style (though hopefully done a bit better this time).
Anyway, before I try to make a more "finalized" moveset, I'd like to have your confirmation I can use those pictures. In my opinion, despite the lack of clothing, this book is a fair bit less explicit and "risqué" than some of the Seductress, Demon Tamer and Summoner (especially) pages, but I rather be safe and ask beforehand instead of building a moveset revolving around pages I cannot use. The Folk Ritual page is the one I'm most concerned about for obvious reasons: If there was, say, a big wooden beam covering the middle part of the image, would that pass..? I also included the dragon image in case you have a good idea and feel generous :)
I also got some reviews done! I hope I won't upset anyone, but the reviews are as honest as I can possibly make them. Sorry! I've went alphabetically and I'm about half done... the other half will be done eventually, but no timeframe given.
ReplyDeleteAlicia: Well, it's an official character so she certainly looks good from a technical standpoint. I don't like her much personally, but I can't complain about different personal tastes! From a gameplay perspective... A huge "Meh" from me. She's a one-trick pony. Her Dark Sphere is an utterly amazing move: The 3 charges is a pretty pointless addition, since it only decrease on success and odds are that everyone's way overkilled by the time the third land. It's also fairly easy to land... But beside that one single move, she has absolutely nothing of interest in any shape or form: No defenses, no utility, plain as nail limited offense.
Assassin: I'm not very familiar with the Assassin Creed serie (I rented #1 once and utterly detested the game), so I didn't even know there were female assassins like those in it. Some pretty art in there (Especially Twin Blade Slash). BUG: Freerunning goes to Blend In page instead. Pretty interesting character overall, mainly due to good Jump bonuses combined with the Assassination skills. It's pretty thematic (Take time to set up the kill) and works well gameplay-wise. The fancy parry's fun too. I know why it's named that way, but Throw Arrow does sound pretty funny. My only question mark in the moveset is Blend In. It feels extremely underwhelming. It's a Red move which you often can't use, and the assassin has no move that synergize with it. I playtested those "less damage" taken moves quite a bit while developping Juliona and Seductress Shion, and my conclusion was that it's generally not worth much at all unless it
A) Is on a Green or Yellow slot, and/or
B) Has either another additional effect or has damage linked to the move, and/or
C) Synergize directly with some of your other moves.
The assassin fullfills none of those conditions, and it result in a move that's basically never worth spending a turn using (IMO). Granted, she got pretty good moveset so she definitively doesn't need that move to be a good and fun character.
B. Jenet: As usual, I have no ideas who that character is, but I have to say that I love her dressing style. Visually-speaking, pretty neat. Gameplay-wise, well... I have to give a thumb down overall. On the positive side, I really like that "1 BP every 2 turns" thing she has. However, she has two main issues:
ReplyDeleteA) Her gameplay is obscure even when checking her page 38. Why do you sometime lose T.O.P. state? Is there a way to get it back? What is that "Just Guard" you need to accomplish before using Ab Oi Mademoiselle?
B) She has an extremely limited moveset. She has 6 unused slots, 3 slots dedicated to SP move (which requires a minimum of 3 attacks to get enough SP to use one) and 1 slot that cannot be used unless in TOP state.
This means that on most turns, the only actions available to her are basically Down, Side, Thrust and Jumps. It's all a character requires to be functional, but it's even more limited than what barebone characters like Nowa or Leina have. Her special moves are nothing special (beside the extremely hard to perform one due to it's damage), so to me she fits the WIMPIL definition perfectly.
Beatrice: Due to Dlanor I know from what game she is, but that's about it. Images are pretty good on the whole (Taunt's insane grin is great in particular). Gameplay-wise, she's fine overall. Fire Balista is very nice (basically a conditional 0 to 4 poison damage) and it's quite ingenious (I wish I had thought of it first).
If we exclude the Ougon partner bit, she's a low damage, average durability character with an above-average healing move (a conditionless, scoreless and green healing 26 move is very good). The balista's hard to use, but it's pretty nifty. I'd rank her under "slightly-weak" before we take the Metaworld part of the equation.
If we include the Metaworld, I'd put her around Average. The thing is, her innate bonus is amongst the worst: Since her highest SP cost is 2, the maximum benefit she can get is the equivalent of getting 2 SP... That's hardly impressive when you have assist characters that give out either 4SP or 4BP instead.
However, comparing the most similar character, Dlanor's definitively stronger than Beatrice. I'd give a slight edge to Dlanor in the base moveset (Mainly due to her highest damage move being +5 so it crits unlike anything in Beatrice's arsenal and it doesn't require SP, base durability is around similar), but the Metaworld declaration bonus is just not comparable. Dlanor has the best Ougon bonus, so she's free to pick another of the good ones, while Beatrice is stuck with one good pick plus her own extremely mediocre ability. Do note that this doesn't make Beatrice weak compared to the average QB character: It just makes her weaker than Dlanor is.
Chie: I'm still considering buying Persona 4 for my Vita so I might get to actually know a character eventually, yay! :) Overall, I'm pretty darn impressed. She's an incredible offensive powerhouse with an awesome block move, but who gets knocked out if a stiff breeze hits her. Her SP goes up extremely fast, but her "free" attacks are absolutely horrible. So each turn you have the decision to use some SP to actually do something, or do "nothing" and save for the extremely powerful moves later. That makes her pretty fun to play as and no other character in the game currently play like her. Overall she's probably on the strong side of the equation but reducing her strength would strip away some of the character's uniqueness (and making her squisher would make battles too much of a coin flip). She's really fun to play as and requires some thought, so she definitively gets a double thumbs up.
ReplyDeleteFilia: I know what Skullgirls is, so that's a start! I can't say I like the art much in general, but hey, personal preferences. Gameplay-wise, she's both plain and relatively strong. Plain because her moveset doesn't have anything flashy and doesn't require much thought to play as (granted, that's the case of most characters in the game), and strong because her damage numbers are high. Her long-range game is excellent, her base damage's decent, her jumps are pretty good and her block is amazing (no restrictions, can deal damage, -6 score, +2 damage on everything).
Annnd... Upload worked this time, yay!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sendspace.com/file/rwl2cr
Naughty bits, naughty bits everywhere! Lol, just kidding, the new char looks awesome, and I see nothing wrong with the sexy proto-pics if you can censor them properly... including the so-called dragon, too.
DeleteAlso, I think you missed Charles's analysis of the QB & QBR girls? It'd be great if you could share your opinions on those two: http://www.sendspace.com/file/0ikf6x
Too bad about B.Jenet, though... You're supposed to lose TOP when below 2/3 of your health (and gain it back when over it), and "Just Defend" is the "perfect defense" thingie I sometimes add here and there (Bayonetta, Elena), like jumping over a low attack or dodging a thrust nets you a better advantage. I know doing that before a super is roundabout-ish, but the super in question is the strongest "safe move" 48 in the game, I think.
Well, I did call it a dragon-ish-looking thing the first time for a reason! I think it's supposed to be a thunder god of some sort, but I have no idea what's it's proper name is. Anyway, a big thank you, even though it means I'll have to both figure out which page I take out for the dragon thingy (I like all of them: Going down to 32 was already a big challenge) and how I'm supposed to censor that! :) Priestess Shion does look good (beside a small handful of pages), too bad she doesn't play as good though... Ah well, she's acceptable. No dates given at all for next character: Might be a week, might be in a month. We'll see! Restriction file is going to be pretty hard and the censoring will be a colossal task (obviously).
DeleteI totally did miss those analysis. While I think that completely forgoing Extended Range in the analysis is a mistake (Tomoe has decent long-ranged compared to that cast helps her considerably for example) and that it completely skips over some important moves (Like Sigui's having the most broken move in the game), overall it's very detailed scientific approach.
I'm sure it'll be a shocker, but I actually agree with the majority of the analysis. It also explains a few anomalies I had pointed out (Like Eirin & Ymir, and Elina getting stupidly good rankings in my "tournaments", beyond what their raw values states)... I'll do my detailed opinion on those analysis eventually :)