Sunday, January 15, 2012

QB Battle 27.8

Multiupload: App + Media + Extra + Fanmade (update)
Sendspace: App + Media + Extra + Fanmade (update)

Started correcting some minor mistakes with recent characters, and added Morrigan (thanks to Okami31) and Zelda-Sheik (thanks to Luis Carlos + Okami31), though it's mostly Sheik, actually:

Coming next: finishing the round of minor corrections, some surprise characters to celebrate, and I'll try to squeeze in Samus Aran as well.

Edit (01-16): Didn't notice two fanmade pics were PNG, Morrigan was bugged at Off Balance. Fix: Multiupload/Sendspace

Edit 2 (01-19): Replaced the Marshland Witch's pic with a full scan of the page. In case you want to know what is says, it'd be "Finally here! The Marshland Witch participates in the war's climax! Scheduled for launch in 2012"

Edit 3 (01-20): Queen's Gate Kanu was released, and we have more previews than usual this time. Also, WTF, they went and shut Megaupload down? That is both ridiculous and a bother, but as if that will accomplish anything... :p
I hope Anonymous stop them before they get any crazier.


  1. I did miss Spidey and Storm on purpose (No interest in the characters + No unique moveset + Marvel-strength = no play for me), but I totally didn't notice the alternate Ivy.

    Regarding whip Ivy review... I'll make a real one later, but you can check her ranking in the next post to get a great idea of how it's going to be :)

    Well, I did a quick playthrough with every QB/QG/Non-high-Marvel strength guest character (So things like Emma or Black Widow were allowed). Rules were:
    -Random opponents only.
    -If you lose to an high-strength Marvel character or higher, the loss doesn't count (You do get a win count if you somehow win).
    -You lose once, you are disqualified.
    -Play as best as you can.

    So considering it's against Random opponents and that it's 1 loss and you are out, there's obviously a whole lot of luck involved... Still, it still gives some idea of character strength, especially when I get to do this a few more times somewhere in the future. Most of the characters I consider strong did win at least 5 matches, Cammy did the best out of the SF girls as usual and so on so forth.

    There's been a few big surprises though: Both Sabers did really poorly (Was expecting both in top 10), Mirim, Eirin and Elina did mediocre (Elina was #1 last time in the original rule format), Leina 3D got 8 wins somehow, Aldra (R) which I regularly beat the Tyranosaur with actually lost in her first match against Summoner Shion, which is the only time I've ever seen AI summoner Shion win a match. On the other side of the equation, #2 and #3 were big surprises.

  2. Here's the Top 10 in reverse order (11 since #10 spot is tied), alongside how many wins they got before losing one match:

    Felicia: 12
    Echidna: 12
    Cammy: 13
    Komachi: 14
    Nyx: 14
    Ivy: 15
    Sophitia: 19
    Seductress Shion: 19
    Ivy (Alt): 21
    Mina: 24
    Alleyne: 31

    Felicia's a bit surprising: She's good, but top 10 is better than expected. A lot of her fights were really close-calls, though.
    Echidna: Always a standout due to great defenses, and best kick in the game.
    Cammy: Best SF char by a mile, proved it once again.
    Komachi: AI doesn't know how to handle her, and she can 1 or 2-shot most characters. Plus, her +5 move at extended range can be used over and over (since it leads to Block instead of the move itself).
    Nyx: No surprises.
    Ivy: Good defense, safe matrix, great slugger.
    Sophitia: Guard Impacts (picking same move as opponent) make all the difference for a human player, not unexpected.
    Seductress Shion: Probably a bit too good at slugging it out outright, still need to tweak her to make Love points usable.
    Ivy (Alt): Like regular Ivy, but with more damage and more defense. One of the best sluggers in the game. She's like Echidna, but with more damage.
    Mina: A big WTF here. She's amazing against melee-only characters, but she's never done great in the past.
    Alleyne: And the amazing Alleyne keeps slaughtering everything as usual... Even in regular careless plays during the year she at least got 10+ win streaks, without abusing her best moves.

    As usual, no characters had any experience points used. Morrigan and Sheik were added at the last minute and while they both did fine, neither performed amazing (5 and 4 wins respectively).

  3. So, Alleyne is definitely one of the best? I guess it makes sense in-character, but she is coming from the old LW books, that were supposed to be balanced and thoroughly play-tested...

    While on the subject of QB balance, old-school LW player and QB legend Haruka Tomose (the guy we owe the early book translations to, that is) tried to rebalance the books with unofficial house rules in this page, in Alleyne's case, it was by reducing the damage on her protected moves and the Bolas, kinda gets you thinking, doesn't it? :)

    And I'm rather surprised alternate Ivy seems to be so good, as the first char released after an official version, I just intended the alternate to be an equally-viable, yet different enough, character.

  4. "that were supposed to be balanced and thoroughly play-tested..."

    Uh? Really? I'd say whoever did the balancing failed at their job :) I had just assumed that characters weren't supposed to be equal.

    Alleyne vs Nowa is a perfect example. Alleyne has the following over Nowa:

    1) 2 more BP
    2) Much higher damage across the board
    3) Is not vulnerable to Weapon Breaks unlike Nowa.
    4) Has a better matrix

    While Nowa has the following advantages:

    1) Verrry slight Score advantage (Turned around is 1 lower and Weapon Dislodged is 2 lower)

    It's not even a contest between the two. I assumed that the weaker characters were designed this way so that you could have a fair match between a new player and an experienced one.

    Reason #4 is the main reason as to why Alleyne is so good. Moves are not create equal: For example, on one character a move 48 (usually a Protected red) might lead to a safe outcome 16 times out of the 24 possible options, while another character might get 20 times out of 24. On some characters like Alleyne, an extended range Dodge will work safely 100% of the time no matter what the opponent pick, while others can get hit by one of the black moves. Alleyne's 36 is roughly as safe as Leina's 24, and Alleyne's 24 is substancially safer than Leina's, ect.

    Alleyne's moves are stupidly safe across the board, especially her Damaging Bola toss (it's actually safer than the the Accurate one). Other characters have as good or nearly as good matrixes as her, but it's generally on characters like Kasumi or other ninjas: low damage with meh score pages compensate. Alleyne's damage is amongst the highest in the game: Up + Damaging Toss at +8 is insanely fun.

    Or like #3: Scoreless block pages are much better than even -6 block pages, since they are invincible to all effects that comes from on "on score, do X". The few characters that have scoreless block pages tend to have lower success rates, but Alleyne has the same success rate as the best block pages.

    I'll admit that I definitively didn't check everyone in detail, but I did check enough to see that there's huge differences between some characters. Due to how the game works it of course only affects

    I didn't check either of the Ivy's matrixes, but from all the matches I've played with regular Ivy, I really felt like she had a great matrix... If your Ivy is based on her matrix but with her higher damage, it explains why she's so good.

  5. Err meant #2, not #3 there :)

    Anyway, review time!

    Whip Ivy: You guys sure picked the prominent chest pictures :)
    Anyway, I've already said it a few times: regular Ivy is surprisingly good due to a good matrix, decent damage at both long and short range and great score pages (beside Leg). This Ivy has better score pages and higher damage than the regular one. She does lose on the Block pages and has a bad parry but that's not enough to hold her down. Very good character, but I don't expect her to score in the top 3 again though :) Oh, she does feel more like the real Ivy instead of tons of "claw attacks" though, so well done there.

    Zelda: Artwork-wise, it's really two extremes. Most of the Zelda pages are asthonishly beautiful, while the majority of the Sheik pages are mediocre at best (Better than what I can draw, but still). Visually-speaking, IF there are more such Zelda pages it might have been better to go with a full Zelda book. Anyway, she's a really solid character. I played with her some more, and odds are she'd have ranked higher. Decent base damage, great Boost move (+3 is awesome) with the same on Up and decent score pages. The Predict move thingy can be useful against block-less characters (If they don't have green block moves and you force them to do green, just do a Smash and you always deal good damage). Naryu's Love can have some use to distrupt enemies since it seems to be an extremely safe 48 (with 48s usually have the best landing rate out of the non-regular moves), although I'd definitively avoid using it against opponents with "on score" effects. Really nice character and fun to play, I like.
    Possible bug: Using Thrusts at Extended Range land you on the Light Arrow page instead of the Thrust page when it closes range: This result in being able to only do Green or Yellow due to using a -1 attack. Bit annoying :)

    Morrigan: Beside a few rare pages, awesome image set. Gameplay-wise, there's really isn't that much to say. She's pretty much like Cassandra but slightly weaker (which didn't exactly receive a glowing review in the first place). Pretty much identical score pages, much worse block, equivalent damage but has self-damage when using the biggest moves and lower Jump bonuses. She's done okay so far though from what I played: If she does have a ninja-level matrix she's going to fare pretty good, but I haven't had the playtime to judge properly yet (And really digging through the matrix takes time and effort so I rarely do that :)). The Flight move is interesting, but with a 2 turn flight I'm not sure it's worth the risk to use. I think I'd make it 3 turns to make it more appealing, but your call of course :)

  6. Wow, Morrigan set is purdy! Eye-popping!

  7. Heh, I'm glad you guys liked Morrigan, she had too many pics of her just standing around and few fighting poses (the Shadow Blade pic is the closest I could find to the real one, for example).

    -I had some doubts if Morrigan's Flight would be too much with 3 turns, because of your bonuses + the enemy's penalties. But if you play some more and still feel it's weak, sure, 3 turns.
    If she resembles Cassandra, I think it's just coincidence, though.

    -I'll check Z-S' ER Thrust. The problem with Zelda is that, yeah, due to her hobby of being captured and stuff, there's almost no art of her looking as if she was fighting (it was hard enough finding her proper 3 spells), and Sheik has appeared in just one game, so that's the best I could do.
    (If I seem to favor popular characters, it's because of this :D)

    -As far as I remember, Whip Ivy is only half-based on the official Ivy, both on score/damage and matrixes.

    -I knew Alleyne was quite strong, but you're making it sound almost like she's just OP. ^^U
    But yep, the guys who did the LW FAQ do claim that they're all more or less at the same level.
    I've heard someone argue that it's just the 1st edition that were balanced (that'd match: Leina, Ymir, Risty, Leina 3d, Airi, Branwen, Mirim, Irma, Nowa, Nanael, Tarnyang & Sainyang, Tomoe and Kasumi), though I get the feeling you don't quite agree with that either. :)

  8. "Too many BEAUTIFUL pics of her just standing around"...haha...she's one of my favorites without a doubt...

    The relation between how popular or how important a character is vs the amount of quality artwork you can find based on that character is quite off...for example, most people know about the gals from Mortal Kombat, but I can challenge you to find me 10 good pics of Sonya Blade...yet, without an effort, I can get you more than 30 pics of Red Monika from Battle Chasers which is has been for years an incomplete 9-issues comic series...haha...

    Naruto and Bleach are incredibly successful and popular yet they don't dominate danbooru and similar sites with fanart, instead having Touhou ladies and other girls from non-mainstream works (Black Rock Shooter, Fate Testarossa, Nanoha Takamachi)...

    Often I delve in the search with high hopes and quickly find myself challenged when I only get like a dozen hits from deviant art...I wished google image was much bigger and better at seeking out pics...oh well, at least I got leech to grab those that I miss (mmm...where the hell did you find that Morrigan kick?)...

  9. It's weird that Morrigan being a succubus doesn't have a seduction skill, but I understand that's just backstory instead of part of her fighting moveset...which means, I can do a general succubus character later on a la Valkyries! Or maybe I can use up the many pics of that succubus girl from Touhou that never appeared in any significant fashion in their games...

  10. I'm not a Darksider player at all (I can count the number of matches I played on one hand) and I did play maybe... 50 games of Marvel vs Capcom 2, but I did play Morrigan a bit. I don't recall her having a seduction move so considering that, it makes sense for her not to have it.

    Granted, I'll admit that a succubus without a charm is weird considering that succubus are at the top of the "female creatures that seduce people" 'food' chain... :)

    leecherboy: Actually, for the most part I do agree with that list you just posted! While I could be picky and say things like Airi = Tomoe = Risty > Kasumi = Leina = Ymir > Leina 3D = Nowa > Irma, they are close enough that I could accept calling them "balanced" if I stretch my definition of balanced. Coincidally enough, they are all at the bottom of the barrel...

    From your list, there's three I'd argue wouldn't fit with the rest.

    Mirim: She's definitively stronger than Leina all the way. Her damage is either equal or better for every move, and Mirim has a whooping 2 score advantage on pretty much all pages. That makes Mirim nearly invincible against "chip" damage characters, the best in the game. It would be possible to argue that Mirim is balanced since she lose 2 turns on Knocked Down but I say her advantages way outweight that but I can understand the argument otherwise.

    Branwen: However, I can't understand the one where Branwen would be in that same category. 16 BP instead of 12, better score pages than anyone of that group except Mirim, higher damage than any of those beside Risty and that's not even including her Adrenaline bonuses. Her only drawback is that her high block has a -2 score, but since it has such high damage it's a fair tradeoff. Plus, her shield is unbreakable unlike the others on the list. I'd say Branwen is at least 2 steps higher than the rest of the list.

    Tarnyang & Sainyang: If it weren't for the passive +2 HP every turn at extended range, I'd have put them at the top of the list I marked there... But that bonus is just game-breaking good, especially since everyone else on that list don't even have the +1 when doing Extended Away.

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  13. Oops, something wrong with inserting links... Anyways:

    @Okami: All the pics I find on my own are from Pixiv. Sure, you have to look for the name in katakana, and you must register if you want more than 10 pages of result, but a nice search on Morrigan (like: gets you more than 2000 pics, usually with a more manga-like style (not that I'm complaining about DeviantArt).

    Technically, Morrigan once had a kiss-blowing super (Eternal Slumber) that more or less qualifies as seduction... but I found no pics for that, it only appeared once and I think she has enough supers. So yeah, go gather that Succubus book :)

    @ayra: See, I knew you'd object, though I mostly agree with you there :D
    But as it is, though I've never looked seriously for it, I haven't ever seen any kind of power tiers for QB books (we sorta did one last year for the QB chars themselves, at:

  14. Oh, wow...nice! You definitely got yer tricks! Then I won't feel that bad if I can't gather enough...haha...I wish deviant art was easier to search too and I'm even a member of it...

  15. Um, sure, I can try to fill in if the character is missing some pages, but it is more work for me, so don't just go slacking off, now ^^U

  16. Fine then...haha...

    Here's Maya (or Manya or Mara depending the source) from Dragon Quest IV...

    She's a dancer and this are her fighting abilities according to wiki:

    "As a dancer rather than a warrior, Maya is physically frail, possessing practically zero Strength, and the lowest Defence and HP in the game. The tradeoff is the highest Agility, good Wisdom, a great deal of MP, and a very strong set of spells, including support spells like Sap, strong damage-dealers like Sizzle and Frizzle, and oddities like Puff."

    Frizz is a single fireball...Frizzle is the powered-up version and Kafrizzle is the biggest version (Kinda like Fire, Fira, Firaga)..

    Sap lowers the defense of the target by half...Drain Magic absorbs HP...there's a Puff that turns you into a dragon with fire breathing, but there's no pic of her as a dragon nor I think is needed...

    Sizz is a line of fire...I guess a multiple-target (multiple columns?) fire spell...

    Bang is an explosion...Boom is a bigger explosion...Kaboom is the biggest explosion...

    She learns the spells at these levels which should help in figuring out the order of power...

    Frizz 1
    Sap 5
    Sizz 7
    Bang 12
    Sizzle 14
    Drain Magic 16
    Frizzle 19
    Boom 23
    Kasizzle 27
    Kafrizzle 33
    Kaboom 36

    have fun with this curvy lady? (I won't do Meena just yet...)

    Gimme 3 more choices!

  17. I used pixiv on Maya by the way...thanks...also, I was re-checking what's on the pipeline and if you haven't started work on Neytiri don't start...there's simply not enough pics to do her can skip her for now until artists provide me with more and better fan art...haha

  18. For some reason, Maya's file was deleted?... :(

    About Neytiri... you know, I've checked her set a couple of times since, and yeah, I was fearing it wouldn't be enough. But well, if the sequels really get done, I hope more fanart of her surfaces (and in the meantime, I'll try and remember to watch the movie one day :p)

    And my 3 choices:
    -Aya Brea (Parasite Eve): gun + all kind of ESP powers, shouldn't overlap Emma Frost much
    -Harley Quinn: we got Catwoman, so we need a supervillain now
    -Solid Snake: I'm making an exception to the unwritten "all-female" rule because he deserves it

  19. I accidentally erased we go...

    I like Solid Snake but I'm hesitant to choose him because at the very beginning I decided to focus on female characters based on the spirit of Queen's Blade and the fact that there's just too many popular characters out a completist (in everything! haha) it bothers me that I would never have every character that I like ready to be played (like MUGEN) my goal is to get the majority of the gals which effectively halves my burden...heh...

    I've never liked Harley Quinn for some reason...maybe cuz she is a bipolar nut that easily got seduced by the Joker and acts like a trophy girl despite his overt and varied abuses...not even her sexier/grittier Arkham games look has changed my opinion of Batman just casually throws her around like she's not worth a single biceps curl...haha...

    I choose Aya Brea and I'm already thinking she'll be a little tough...she's not very popular nowadays is she? I remember seeing a lot more of Parasite Eve back on Playstation One days, but the series dwindled...I heard of a PSP release and that was it...I'm dreading tentacle pics too...well, it's a challenge!

  20. Great job with Maya's beautiful pics! I was sorta worried, her being a non-fighter type, but it seems she does have her moves.

    Aya Brea did star in 3 Square games that were a cult hit series, one of them pretty recent, she should have enough pics... if not, just let me know and we'll skip her.

    I'll save Snake in my list of chars for a special occasion, then.

  21. Here's Aya Brea

    Not many pics for psychic attacks...don't know much about the character but I was able to find much more than what I thought ...

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  23. I thought I was gonna do Black Rock Shooter but I wasn't interested...I'll work on Neliel tu Odershvank instead...(Bleach centaur!)

  24. Puzzling. Flying Buffalo (the American distributes of Lost Worlds) doesn't have Queen's Gate Kanu listed on their website yet. Usually, the post Queen's Blade/Gate books a few days in advance for pre-orders. I've also seen only one listing for it on eBay.

  25. Hm, that's true about Kanu, but then again, she was announced by surprise barely one month and a half ago, and it's not like the series is terribly popular ^^U

    @Okami: Good work with Aya! There's less attacking pics than I expected, though, I'm going to have to load up the 2nd game and see what I can match...
    Nelliel is a great choice, it's a pity she was forgotten, she was one of the few powerful gals in Bleach.

  26. ^Er, I mean Kanu's series, Shin Koihime Musou, isn't terribly popular, or at least not in the West, as far as I know.

  27. Here's Nel Tu or according to current wiki; Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck...very popular character with so little screen time...

    I don't know if you want to have her baby form as a sign that her Gamuza transformation is up...I guess she wouldn't be able to hold it for long...

    No good pics of her Cero or Cero Doble, so maybe you can find some pic like it or just disregard it...

    Her shikai is Declare, Gamuza! and her special attack is Lanzador Verde (Spanish attacks in Bleach crack me up but they are still cool)...

    Have fun!

  28. To replace my ill-timed choice of Neytiri, I'm going to work on Momiji Inubashiri from Touhou...good news for the Touhou fans that frequent this site...I expect their help cuz I don't know much about the game or her...

  29. Great work with Nel! I'll figure something out the kiddie form...

    Just be thankful I chose English by default to start this thingie, or else you'd be playing "La batalla del acero de la reina", lol.

    Though, Momiji Inubashiri? She doesn't seem to be in the Touhou fighting game, so wouldn't she be too difficult?

  30. Well, she has a sword and shield? haha...and I wouldn't have a problem playing in the lucky ones are the others,neh?

  31. Should I not do Momiji cuz there's not enough info?

  32. Well, basically... yep ^^U
    If she barely appears in a couple of games and has no special skills, I'd rather not bother with her. Instead, maybe I would suggest one more popular and with more going for her, like Yakumo Yukari or Cirno.